This article was originally published on Clash
Despite the unsmiling orthodoxy surrounding punk, it has no one meaning or identity. Through several branches of evolution, many of which are diametrically opposed, the genre as well as the culture surrounding it have traversed basements, college campuses and even suburbia; some have reduced it to a mere costume while others turn a blind eye to the music’s corporate viability.
Today, punk is whatever we want it to be.
Exhibit A: Dr. Bryan “Dexter” Holland. Born and raised in Orange County, he went on to earn three degrees in molecular biology from the University of Southern California (USC) while simultaneously fronting one of the most commercially successful pop-punk bands of the late 90s and early 2000s. Four decades after they started out as Manic Subsidal, The Offspring have released their eleventh studio album. Speedy, animated and pulsating, ‘SUPERCHARGED’ takes on multiple forms over ten snappy cuts that demonstrate how violating category is far more fun than adhering to it.
This past summer, Dexter met up with Clash to talk about his group’s ascension, aging gracefully while remaining active in a youthful sport, and occasionally switching gears to science.
Before we get into the boring stuff, how’s life been outside music?
I have little ones now – five and eight – so that changes things. When I’m home now, it’s not like I’m going to go golfing for a week, and I’ve got to say, I really love that. I’m certainly not a young father but I’m glad it happened when it did. I was really busy with the band, especially early on, but I have a different perspective now and I get to enjoy some of these moments in ways I wouldn’t have when I was younger.
Do your children take a natural liking to the kind of music you make?
They do, but they’re also at the age where they love my band, which is awesome. Eventually, when they turn 13 or 14, my band’s not going to be cool to them anymore.
It’s interesting you say that, because The Offspring’s brand of punk is making quite the comeback. Have you noticed that?
You know, they say the pendulum swings. I remember about ten years ago, music seemed to have changed such that people were not playing stuff like ours anymore. Lucky for us, it seems to have come back in our direction.
I noticed when we were playing a show recently that it was all 14-year-olds in the front row, and I was thinking about how those kids weren’t there the last time we performed in the city because they would have been nine or something. So yeah, I do feel like there are fresh faces coming in. Then, you have older people in the back, some of whom are probably parents, right? To see something cross-generational like that is the coolest thing. I remember seeing that when I was a kid, whether it was the Rolling Stones or AC/DC, people would come with their kids. I’m also seeing it now with bands like Pennywise. I know those guys and I go to their shows, and you see people my age and then all these little kids – “groms” they call them, with the sideways hats and motocross shirts.
Witnessing punk age that way is quite fascinating since people have always been skeptical of what it would look like past 40.
Yeah, I can’t quite figure it out. I was driving down the street in Huntington Beach, which is where I live, and I saw this high-school kid wearing a Black Flag t-shirt. Now I’m thinking about how Black Flag is from 1978, but let’s say the 80s – you know, you’re going on 40–50 years. Can you imagine if I was in high school and wearing a Glenn Miller t-shirt?
There’s something about this kind of music that has lasted the span of time, like the Ramones came up back when music was changing so fast. The 40s were so drastically different from the 50s, the 60s were a whole other thing and then the 70s completely reinvented that, so it’s strange to see punk have this longevity that you would never think it had because it wasn’t crafted music. I guess it resonates with young people in an entirely different way.
Madame Wong’s and the Hong Kong Café in Chinatown harboured the local punk scene in Los Angeles for years. Was there a distinct “scene” that helped cultivate and amplify The Offspring during the band’s early years?
Yes and no. I want to pick apart that question a little bit, but it’s funny you mention those Chinatown venues because our producer Bob Rock told us to check out that documentary about them. There was a version of the Hong Kong Café when we started out, but it had moved to Westwood or something by then.
But anyway, they say for a movement to get started, there has to be a central venue that makes it work. You can point to the grunge thing in Seattle, for example, which had some core venues that were around long enough to give bands the chance to keep going back to develop. I consider Gilman Street [The Alternative Music Foundation] in Berkeley to be one of those places too. Then there were a bunch of really old places in LA a little bit before my time, like this place called the Masque where Germs, Black Flag and Fear got their start.
When we were coming up, things had really changed into a glam-metal scene. You had places like The Troubador and The Whisky [a Go Go] that weren’t really into having punk bands play because I think there just wasn’t enough money in it. They tried to go for the metal bands because people would bring their girlfriends and spend, you know? It was actually pretty difficult to find anything in LA at the time, so we’d end up going to Berkeley every three months or so … we actually got our first small following up there.
Is that how you guys got your first record deal?
Yeah, it’s a roundabout thing because the NorCal people are all friends with the Southern California people, but they each talk shit on each other too; like “I would never live in San Francisco” or “I would never live in LA.” I was born and raised here, so I don’t really have an objective opinion, but what I’m trying to say is there really was a lot of back-and-forth with the bands and magazines and stuff. Being in Northern California is how we got introduced to Epitaph, which is the Southern California label that signed us.
What were some of the other bands you were shoulder-to-shoulder with during your rise?
Operation Ivy was the big one … that was pre-Rancid, of course. What’s funny about Operation Ivy is we played probably four or five shows with them, then they recorded their classic album ‘Energy’ and quit. If you ever watched them live, it was most likely before their big album came out, but we got to play with them back then which was really special. And of course, Green Day was playing at Gilman too.
Let’s talk about the new album. It sounds like every known version of The Offspring as well as some new ones making appearances across the record. Was that intentional?
I would say no. It’s natural to think that the whole thing’s some masterplan that you start off with on a sheet of paper, but songs kind of take you in a direction. You’re just working on one song at a time, then all of a sudden, you’ve got four. From there, you can decide if you want another fast song or a slow one.
I think it has always been important for us to expand our circle. You know, doing an oddball song like ‘Gone Away’ on the piano is one example. Back in the day, ‘Self Esteem’ was an oddball song because it was mid-tempo instead of being super-fast … or something quirky like ‘Pretty Fly (For A White Guy)’ and ‘Why Don’t You Get A Job?’ … on our last record, we had this one called ‘We Never Have Sex Anymore’. This time, it just felt like we did a bunch of that. Even though it has a ton of different flavours, the whole thing also feels a lot more cohesive to me.
Is there a strict process behind your songwriting and how the group goes about recording the material?
It’s changed over time. Back in the day, we’d block out like three months and go into the studio every day for ten weeks and knock it out. That gets really draining after a while, and you kind of start burning out and feeling stuck. Because we have our own studio now, we have the luxury to work for like two weeks at a time, take a month off and then go for two more weeks. It works out because we tour a lot too.
By having the time to sit on it, you go back in like, “Oh, I got five ideas I want to try on this one,” so we sort of plot along that way. Before you know it, you spend a year or two on an album because you’re not in the studio all the time, and that’s what happened in March; we had a few songs, got together with the label and everyone was like, “Wow, we like this collection. You’ve got about half an album here. If you can complete the rest of it, we’ll get this thing out.” That way, it becomes more focused and directed.
How particular are you about the order in which people listen to your songs?
It’s funny how there was all this stuff we grew up thinking was important … like I don’t know how important radio is anymore. Also, magazines are much different than before because they’re more online now. So yeah, I spent a few hours on the sequencing for sure, knowing at the back of my mind that most people don’t digest albums like that anymore. I still can’t help it, that’s just the artist in me.
For a while, we were questioning why we were even putting all this effort into an album if no one’s going to listen to it; they’ll hear one song and say, “When’s your new album coming out?” Remember how everyone was doing EPs a few years back? We considered that for a while but it just didn’t feel right. In some weird way, I feel like we’re a rock band and bands do albums.
You must’ve really noticed a change in how people consume music considering The Offspring didn’t release an album from 2012 to 2021, which was exactly when habits changed significantly.
Totally. I was talking to a buddy of mine who has kids and he goes, “Dude, they won’t even listen to a whole song! They can’t finish anything!” And it’s true – this need for immediacy in our short attention spans. Funnily enough, early rock ‘n’ roll was all about singles because it would take a while to get an album together.
Is there a story behind the ‘SUPERCHARGED’ title and album cover?
I just wanted something that felt energetic. I was actually trying to think of a word like that when we did ‘Smash’ but couldn’t come up with anything that great even though Epitaph loved it. I don’t know if that fully encapsulated what I was trying to get at, so in the same way, I came up with ‘SUPERCHARGED’ and I liked it.
Then, I was trying to figure out a way to visualise that. We had this guy who we worked with on ‘Let The Bad Times Roll’, so we talked about something electrifying with lightning and a skeleton. With certain things, almost in a non-artistic way, you do want to stay on brand, right? That doesn’t mean it’s not genuine or not a part of you, because that’s where you came from. So yeah, that’s why I thought there should be a skeleton on the cover.
When it comes to staying on brand, how do you negotiate not upsetting your day-one fans while trying to stay fresh and bring in new listeners?
I’ve struggled with this as a songwriter because I love punk rock, but I wanted to write songs that would be bigger than all the bands I loved. Social Distortion, TSOL and all those other groups weren’t on the radio, so I would write all these punk songs but also ones that were more poppy. When we were starting out, those two things were very far apart artistically. Now, you can sort of make sense of a band that made ‘Come Out And Play’ and ‘Bad Habit’ because there’s a two-sidedness to what we do.
When we did ‘Ixnay On The Hombre’ and ‘Americana’ with Dave Jerden the producer, he told us, “Look, you’re partly a pop band and you’re partly a punk band. I feel like somehow you won’t be as popular if you were just one or the other.” I found that really interesting because I always thought it was something that held us back, like how people couldn’t figure out what we were, but he thought it was the yin-yang that made it work. I’ve embraced that more since then.
The Offspring has always felt more punk than pop.
Yeah, you have to be quite familiar with our work to know that. I was thinking about bands like Creedence Clearwater Revival – they’re one of my favorites, by the way; I think John Fogerty is fantastic – and how they were really a blues band with hits … like your mind goes to ‘Bad Moon Rising’. Or think about the Rollings Stones, who were a bar band with hits. There’s a genre and style to these guys, but then they also have these standout songs that are legit hits.
Punk has always had its share of gatekeepers, and I’m sure you had to deal with some of that.
Oh yeah, you can look at the comments under any of our stuff and see it. I think it kind of comes with the territory, whether it’s metal or punk or these genres that have more underground, rabid fanbases. You’re always going to get more flack when you have something more mainstream. Look at Nirvana – they got tons of shit for not being “cool” after they got big. Before that, I was in graduate school when Jane’s Addiction was getting bagged on for ‘Been Caught Stealing’. I remember thinking, “What the fuck are you talking about? This band is great,” but people were just so bummed about having that song on the radio.
I think there’s a possessiveness about it, like “I’m cool because I have this thing that you don’t have.” It’s part of what creates identity, I guess. You want it to yourself, but the second your little sister likes it too, it’s not cool anymore.
Was there a criticism that stung more than others and really got to you?
Well, you learn to develop thick skin, but things still get to you. A lot of what people said about us was just wrong, like calling us an overnight success when we’d already been at it for ten years. It was frustrating because I’m actually really proud of the fact that we came up by ourselves; it was DIY, but it was also out of necessity because we weren’t signed to a label. No one was giving us promo money or tour support. We made our own t-shirts and recorded our own records. I remember we had a great review way, way back in the day in which they called us “a tinny little punk band from Orange County.”
Did you take that as a compliment?
No, it was a total burn! I guess it could’ve been worse, and we probably were what they said we were. If bands that have made it realised how bad they were when they started, they probably won’t have continued. I had no idea how awful we really were. If I came across any of that stuff now, I’d burn it.
Were you pursuing music seriously while you were at USC?
In my head I was. I wasn’t admitting it to anybody but I was fully into it. You know, staying up late at night, watching TV, drinking two litres of Pepsi and playing guitar instead of studying.
Was there a surrounding ecosystem that allowed you to put on shows at the time?
Man, we tried everything we could, but none of the clubs wanted to book us. If you found a club that would book you, you were lucky. Eventually, the Anti-Club came along and they lasted a while. The other thing that happened was people would go and rent out veterans’ halls – VFW [Veterans of Foreign Wars] halls they’d call them – or Elks Lodges or whatever, but it was pretty difficult to find places. We formed a band with people we knew in high school.
Fast-forward to 2024 and you guys shared the stage with Ed Sheeran at BottleRock in Napa Valley. What’s the story there?
Our guitarist Noodles had read in an interview that our album ‘Conspiracy Of One’ was his first CD, and so we were trying to do the math; like that was in 2000, so he would’ve been nine or something like that, which added up. Because he was already performing at BottleRock, we reached out to him and asked if he would consider joining us on stage for a song, and he was like “Oh yes!” very enthusiastically.
He’s even got an Offspring tattoo …
That was a rumor, right? So we asked him which song he wanted to do and he suggested ‘Million Miles Away’, which I thought was cool because it’s not one of our biggest songs. Anyway, we all decided to meet in our trailer before the show and just strum it out backstage. We asked him and he just lifted his shirt … and there’s this big Offspring tattoo right there!
I have to say, he’s a really great guy. Obviously, he’s a really talented musician and it was so much fun playing with him, but I was really surprised to hear about all the stuff he’s into. He was talking about crazy, old hardcore bands from the UK, Cradle Of Filth and all. From talking to him, you could see his interests are actually very diverse. With his catalog, you won’t think he would be as into all that stuff, but he was, so it made sense why he likes our band.
The crossover might seem confusing to some on paper, but it makes sense after watching him performing with you guys.
He sent us a quick little recording on the day of the show, saying he wasn’t sure what key to play the song in. He was talking about how his voice was a little thrashed from doing so many shows in a row and how he wanted to lower the key, so he just strummed it out over a voicemail – just him singing with his guitar – and he totally changed it into a pop hit. Just the way he sings is really great.
What is your thought process behind curating a setlist?
I’ve talked to Bob about that a lot and he goes, “the same, the different.” You’ve got to make it the same, but different … like how do you do that? I think that might have been something David Bowie said but I get what he meant; you want it to be familiar, but you also want to offer something they haven’t heard before.
Let’s step away from music for a moment. You have a bachelor’s, master’s and PhD from USC in molecular biology. How involved are you in the science world right now?
I dabble in that world. If I were explaining molecular biology to someone, I’d say “biotech” because I think people find it easier to identify it that way. Anyway, I did this thesis that is a part of the USC library. Getting it published in scientific journals is a separate task, so I’ve been parsing out my thesis in two different parts and tweaking it with the intention of sending it out to get published as papers, but I’ve been pretty slow about that.
How would you explain your thesis and research to the layperson?
My focus was HIV. Academically, it’s really interesting because it’s such a tough virus to combat; humanely, it’s a worldwide scourge and we still have a lot of work to do on it. That’s why I chose it. I sort of discovered, mainly through computer modelling, that there are these little molecules that we have in our bodies called microRNAs, and they sort of have these on–off switches. Now, we think that they interact with HIV as well, and I might have found some connections that could help figure out a way to turn off the virus.
That was craftily phrased.
You know, I was a TA back in the day. I remember going to the lectures and noticing how the professors knew so much that they were so in their own heads. Because I had to study the material, I knew what they were trying to say but the kids didn’t. They would write the stuff on the board and it won’t be annotated. As a kid, you copy it down but you don’t know what the fuck it means afterwards, so I would have to explain it in regular terms to those same students during our sessions and they’d respond to it really well.
Did you ever consider a future in academia?
I think that’s where I would’ve ended up. I liked the research and thought it was cool, and I actually enjoyed the classes too. I never saw myself as a teacher, but I liked the idea of someone’s light going off when I’d explain things in everyday terms. Molecular biology is a heavy subject, but it’s not quantum physics or rocket science. You can break it down into simpler terms.
You and Brian May from Queen are among the few people who can go by rockstar and scientist.
Him probably more than me, but yeah. I do know a lot of people who have honorary doctorates, but we actually did the whole thing.
How do honorary doctorates work?
I think when you give a commencement speech …
Didn’t you give one at USC?
I did, but I already had my PhD by then! I got lunch at a restaurant – that was my fee. You know what’s pretty cool is someone told me they mentioned my name on the campus tour.
The marching band even plays ‘The Kids Aren’t Alright’ now at the football games.
Yeah, I’ve actually become pretty friendly with the marching band. It’s very gratifying to see our music move into zones you didn’t expect it to go to. That college has become very near and dear to me. Because I didn’t get into medical school, I went back there and got my master’s; when I still didn’t get into medical school after that, I started pursuing my PhD. I was basically there from ’84 to ’94, when the band broke.
Finally, what have you been listening to?
I still like listening to the radio in my car. In terms of old artists, John Fogerty. He’s the guy and I would love to do something with him on stage or whatever. As for newer stuff, a buddy of mine from the Vandals told me to check out this insane German band called Electric Tallboy … I guess they’re categorised as techno core.
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